Hugh Keir

Mycroft,

Read with interest some of your earlier comments, especially

"What we did find was that the 'better' ones changed the properties of the 'knock' and this fooled the engines sensors into thinking all was OK. "

Given that knock sensors are high frequency microphones listening for the sound of the flame fronts colliding, how do you fool them into thinking things are OK, surely there is either the collision noise present or not.

Knock sensors can sometimes be confused by harsh engine noise / harmonics into thinking that knock is present, but I am unable to grasp how it can work the other way round.

Were the tests on octane boosters carried out for JDPower published and can you copy extracts?

I believe there are two types of knock engine that can be used to judge fuel octane, one runs at 600 RPM and one at 900, can you tell us more about the tests and why there are two types of engine.

Hugh Keir

I take no responsibility for any use you may put this formula to, but here is a DIY octane boost formula that was offered by an American DIY tuner.

How to make your own octane booster (this is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products).
To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toluene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)

This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid.

Mycroft, where are you lets have some more of your gems.

John Lowe

Try a half-bottle of 16 year old Single malt......it smells nicer than Silkolene and tastes better too.

Don't put it in your tank though!

Hic!

__________________
"Well...I think the glovebox is still original."

Mycroft

2 weeks in France......dreadful.

Hugh, most of your 'knock' stuff is correct but some of it is 'put that way' to make it digestable to 'Mr Average', you are all here a 'cut above' that so you deserve a better and exact answer as to how exactly a knock sensor actually works (providing it is OK to post it here) and will do so tomorrow. It will take me a little while to find all the 'stuff' but will put it here. (with the same proviso)

The tests were not for general release.

I saw that 'formula' too, don't like it. Toluene with splash of Iso propyl alc. now that will do nicely!

alex h

Why? I'm not a chemist so I don't know what Iso Propyl Alchohol will do/add to the mixture. Can you expand on this please?

TIA

Mycroft

Because that formula will destroy the Steel used in Japanese valve seats ......bye-bye engine!

Never do anything unless you check carefully with 'Juan Hunose' toluene as a pure additive is very good alone, you need to take great care and 'work' on the ratio of Toluene and Gasoline.

Just found an old paper of mine regarding toluene and other additives, I had forgotten this particular research paper due to at that time a change in course in the research, the work and therfore the paper were not completed but the following piece might interest some of you.

'It follows that simply adding 1% (± 0.2%) by vol. to the Toluene with something as rudimentary as AP75 or WD-40 will give added cooling to valveheads without the usuall precipitate forming, the exact quantity seems to be a co-relation of specific output per litre.'

Exactly how you get the stuff out of the cans is you problem!

Mycroft

Well my patience in getting anything from NF run out yesterday.
So I bought some.

It appears from the initial break down to have rather a high Iso-parrafin content, which is interesting from a lot of angles and would explain why you would not put too much in.

But on the burn tests I can say it is safe to use as there are no discernible precipitates and the Iso-paraffin will take away the knock from the red bandfrequecies.

This is just the preliminary work and I will get some more lab time at the end of next week, so a few more things will hopefully reveal themselves at that time.

Thanks for your patience.

(If anyone is actually still interested

jrpidgeon

I read all your posts with interest Mycroft, so keep up the good work. Look forward to your update.

Jason.

Hugh Keir

Interested - I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the next instalment.

We still have some stuff to discuss with regard to fooling the Knock sensor though.

Tell us what is interesting about Iso-paraffin?, doesn’t sound like it would be the next drink to order down the pub.

Bean

Mycroft

Yes please keep those well-informed posts coming.

Mycroft

Well thats cool.

You're more enthusiastic than some of the students I used to teach!

Iso-parrafins, there are dozens of them and in some parts of the Chemical Industry they are just given 'N' numbers, the ones in the can appear to be in the n31--n37 range, which one really is going too deep into this, I'd be hard pushed to give you good reasons for producing substances so closely related as these.

Essentiallly they are 'bound' long chain molecules, imagine a string of 30 beads, now, the string is interlaced very uniformly and here is the bit that needs the 'leap' of intellectual understanding, these chains (bundles) are dispersed throughout the combustion chamber the flame front when it touches some of these chains causes them to unwind now as they unwind and the oxygen (which, remember, is an acid) rushes in to promote there action (because that is all a flame front is, oxygen particles and some others accelerating to light speed and a few emiiting photons in the process in an attempt to promote the reaction) now as the flame eats through the n-3? the chain unwinds right on the leading edge and this actually slows the flame slightly, but here is the trick in so doing the flame front is slowed but the 'work' done is not decreased the reaction is slower but equally as powerful.
The way to see this is if you can imagine a long pile carpet, the piles are 4" long and are laying flat, now hang this like a curtain the piles are attached to a gossamer thin lattice the wind blows (flame front) and the piles which are also gossmer thin stand out like fingers but due to a little suspension of our 'big world' physics there is no diminuation of the pressure of the air passing through it is just slowed slightly and expanded in volume.

Now that you are all firm in the belief I've left the planet on a train bound for the 'Mad Star' and I'll get back to work.

One of my colleagues has just read the above and his opinion was priceless 'If there are any people still reading this at the end that wouldn't sign you up for the loony-bin then you've had a lucky escape, it is right in principle, but any half decent Chemist there will go out and top himself after reading that'

Gulp.

slippyr4

have you got a RO test engine then?

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Signature is currently on holiday, returning soon.

kowalski

Would i be correct in saying that all of the little bottles of octane boosters (NF, Millers etc) are all just Knock sensor foolers???
and none actually boost the octane of the fuel a worthwhile amount?

__________________
If it goes fast, I NEED it.............

Mycroft

Too early to be certain, so I'll hold back on the comment.

But I'm haven't found any effective boost in any Octane value so far.

But this sort of work can give you a side swipe every so often.