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 21st May 2002, 05:25 PM |
#16 |
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Utter, utter ba$tard
 Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In a pretty little things bedroom... with my trousers
down...
Posts: 2,550
Car Owned: Sinclair V10 and W12...    |
Hmm, that is interesting, the tests we did here was for the Motoring
Industry 'watchdog' JDPower and the results were not good, no one
(independent) has EVER been able to match the manufacturers
claims. To up the Octane we used to add a Lead Ether (deriv), this was really nasty stuff in pure form as it almost instantly (in contact with the skin) went straight to the frontal lobes of the brain and destroyed 'Higher Function' responses there, it literally sent you 'mad'. We now use Benzene to provide this property to some extent, it does not have such a marked effect on the body, it just causes Respiratory diseases in the population at large. ANY product that does what you want (up the Octane rating) is not very 'nice' to handle. Toluene is benign in comparison with those two other products is similar in handling qualities to Petroleum spirit, but is the finest additive for Turbo'ed motors we have ever encountered. It has one other property that really 'makes' it for me because of the nature of its flame propagation it is more temperature tolerant than Petrol alone, you can run higher intake temps with a much, very much, slower power fall off curve, and it won't fall before 45C has been reached, a full 20C above petrol. I would still like pointers to this Millars stuff that had any 'real' info on its constituent parts, all I've found so far is not helpful at all. |
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| 21st May 2002, 05:30 PM |
#17 |
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Man of Steel
 Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Still Waxing the Dolphin probably!
Posts: 1,651
Car Owned: Don't ask!! |
jesus...
you got a chemistry degree dude.
I just bung it and hope for the best!! __________________ www.theratpac.com |
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| 21st May 2002, 05:38 PM |
#18 |
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GTROC Chairman
 Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW London/Surrey
Posts: 5,075
Car Owned: R33 GT-R 2.8  |
Which Toluene?
??? BUTYLATED HYDROXYTOLUENE FOOD TOLUENE / SBP BLEND CRODA TOLUENE/IPS1 BLEND ETHYL-P-TOLUENE SULPHONATE PARATOLUENE SULPHONIC ACID TOLUENE ??? |
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| 21st May 2002, 05:44 PM |
#19 |
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Man of Steel
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Still Waxing the Dolphin probably!
Posts: 1,651
Car Owned: Don't ask!! |
????????????????
what about if you pee in the tank after a session on the aftershocks?
It has been known to strip the paint off supras and subarus in the local area that I am not a big fan of!! JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE!!! __________________ www.theratpac.com |
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| 21st May 2002, 05:56 PM |
#20 |
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Frequent User
 Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Altrincham
Posts: 248
Car Owned: M3 SMGII |
Nick
Your Boat has been known to strip the paint of local supras and subarus let alone your wazz  SJD __________________ 'All Horsepower gives you is top speed. Horespower on its own is nothing!' Gordon Murray |
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| 21st May 2002, 06:00 PM |
#21 |
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GTROC Chairman
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW London/Surrey
Posts: 5,075
Car Owned: R33 GT-R 2.8 |
Nick, I like your style. Ever thought of putting loads of octane booster in and then parking in front of a Scooby/Supra and revving the engine hard before taking your foot off the gas quickly?  |
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| 21st May 2002, 06:11 PM |
#22 |
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Frequent User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Altrincham
Posts: 248
Car Owned: M3 SMGII |
Nick
Your Boat has been known to strip the paint of local supras and subarus let alone your wazz SJD __________________ 'All Horsepower gives you is top speed. Horespower on its own is nothing!' Gordon Murray |
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| 21st May 2002, 06:26 PM |
#23 |
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2.7L & OSG 6SP SEQUENTIAL
 Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 1,391
Car Owned: R32 DRAG CAR BY R.B MOTORSPORT |
MILLERS CVL
COMPETITION VALVE LUBRICANT
FOR SINGLE SEATERS AND RACING SALOONS SO IT SAYS ON THE BOTTLE IT CONTAINS METHYLCYLOPENTADIENYL MANGANESE TRICARBONYL XYLENE GOD KNOWS WHAT ALL THAT DOES BUT WITH THE POWER FC HAND CONTROLER WHEN I RUN THE CVL IT DOES NOT SHOW AS MUCH DET AS WHEN I RUN THE CAR WITH SUPER IN IT SO I THINK THIS MUST BE GOOD. OVER TO YOU MYCROFT __________________ 2005 PROJECT .Z' SPONSORS R.B.MOTORSPORT UK. www.osgiken.co.uk OS GIKEN JAPAN. 6sp Sequential,4 plate clutch & diffs OS maker of many jap parts AUTRONIC UK & AUSTRALIA. SM2 Ecu & R500 Cdi System |
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| 21st May 2002, 07:12 PM |
#24 |
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Utter, utter ba$tard
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In a pretty little things bedroom... with my trousers
down...
Posts: 2,550
Car Owned: Sinclair V10 and W12... |
At first glance that is Redex with a xylene compound to keep the temp
high and inhibit smoke, but I'll put it through the system 'cos there must
be more to it than that! |
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| 21st May 2002, 09:26 PM |
#25 |
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Frequent User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Altrincham
Posts: 248
Car Owned: M3 SMGII |
Mycroft
Whilst you are doing that can you put NF through the system as it feels the best I have used and claims to have special ingredients: http://www.nitrousformula.co.uk/ Ta SJD __________________ 'All Horsepower gives you is top speed. Horespower on its own is nothing!' Gordon Murray |
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| 21st May 2002, 10:22 PM |
#26 |
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Utter, utter ba$tard
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In a pretty little things bedroom... with my trousers
down...
Posts: 2,550
Car Owned: Sinclair V10 and W12... |
OK, the CVL is just a boost of the additives already present in
OPTIMAX type fuel, the XYLENE is (as I suspected) just a 'hot' benzene
that is meant to 'free' the Magnesium held in a safe compound that is the
METHYLCYLOPENTADIENYL bit, (had me fooled for a moment) The MANGANESE
TRICARBONYL is the main lubricant and is kept to minimum in 'normal' fuels
because of its 'acidic' action. It is useful in getting rid of hot carbon
particles left over from combustion, these particles can cause early
detonation of the fuel/air mixture. These particles for reasons of ionic
attraction like to 'hang around' the valve head this stuff gets them out
of the way. Too much of it and the valves will pit badly. The reason for the magnesium (in 'liberated' form) is to change the flame front and to fool the knock sensor, there will be very little in the way of 'octane boost' except possibly if the suspension fluid is toluene based, which I think it might be as the carrier fluid would need to be of that family of chemicals and it is the most suitable. Can't find anything useful on the NF, post it if find it. |
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| 22nd May 2002, 09:43 AM |
#27 |
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"a machine..." :o)
 Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: East Sussex.
Posts: 5,565
Car Owned: R33 GT-R Nur. |
Mycroft, There's loads on NF here: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1238 Look for the posts by Dingy (Steve). Peter. |
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| 26th May 2002, 04:18 PM |
#28 |
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Utter, utter ba$tard
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In a pretty little things bedroom... with my trousers
down...
Posts: 2,550
Car Owned: Sinclair V10 and W12... |
Update.
Despite numerous faxes from both me and the Institute 'NF' have not
been very forthcoming, they just sent a 'standard' reply that basically
said we have our own indpendent testers and they don't need further
testing at this time. That is not very encouraging, (for many reasons) but they might just have a secret and guarding it jealously. |
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| 28th May 2002, 02:36 PM |
#29 |
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Utter, utter ba$tard
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In a pretty little things bedroom... with my trousers
down...
Posts: 2,550
Car Owned: Sinclair V10 and W12... |
slightly off topic, but of interest I
think.
Why is Optimax so variable?
Age, 'Optimax' has a 'tank life' it degrades quite rapidly as the super hot benzene 'loses' it volitility after just 40days in the tank [the one in your car or the one in the ground at you petrol station. From this day, if you use it, then ask the attendent when the last delivery of it was, if he can't answer then get the Manager, I've started doing this lately and they are blissfully unaware of the time thing so answer with a flourish of paperwork and a quizzical look. My rule is simple, look at the docket, it says size of tank 10k ltrs, the discharged amount AT LEAST 90% is needed to keep it at the 97/98 ron, the stuff in the tanker will be 98. this started from the simple question posed me 'What RON is Optimax' the answer is......enhanced 95ron...this is to avoid prosecution by the Customs and Excise if they perform one of their checks. It also scrubs the tank, and this may well be what fooked Adis' cats, his explanation of events fits the dirty tank scenario, apparently the smallest tank on the forecourt is selected [this bit also explains why it is not available nationally] It is cleaned and sealed with an inert gas awaiting its new load, the inert gas does escape and if the gas is not present the new surface scales into rust, the oxide is bad for the SH Benzene and makes it behave oddly during burning, there is a precipitate (solid) formed and this is what I think got Adis cat in trouble, the heating of the solid means that it can perforate the matrix of the cat blowing a hole clean thu it in a few hudred miles. Adis problem too has vexed me but now I see a good reason for the odd occurence. Any input? Anyone? > Adi is a member of the LSOC who has had a something odd occur to his 1JZ engine and cat. (from the LSOC)< If this is too off topic, but of interest, then I'll take it out and put it in a separate heading. Last edited by Mycroft : 28th May 2002 at 03:16 PM. |
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| 28th May 2002, 09:48 PM |
#30 |
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OS Giken 3 L + sequential
 Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Aberdeen Scotland
Posts: 546
Car Owned: R34 GTR Skyline |
DETONATION AND PRE-IGNITION
Just to stir it up a bit, There are two effects that fall under the category of knock. One is Pre-ignition generally caused by carbon deposits, exposed and glowing spark plug threads, thin edges on your head / pistons glowing etc. This causes the fuel to ignite before the ignition spark. The other is Detonation caused by Lean fuel mixture, Fuel octane too low, Improper ignition timing and too high boost this causes secondary spontaneous combustion in addition to the spark induced flame. In both detonation and pre-ignition, it is the collision of the flame fronts that causes the classic pinking sound. Not much difference between the two, but you can deal with pre-ignition by re-building your engine to a higher specification, whereas detonation requires an adjustment to the management of one of the following - Boost, ignition timing, Octane rating or combustion chamber temperature. You could of course use water injection to control the combustion temperatures - might even be cheaper in the long run when compared to a lifetime of octane enhancer. You might also consider that the higher the octane the slower the burn of the flame front and more often than not less energy available from the higher octane fuel. You can of course run more boost and create more power that way, but it would produce more power if you could run the same boost as the high octane example with low octane fuel + water injection. Just depends if you want the absolute maximum power at any cost which is then high octane fuel + high boost + water injection. That is unless you use some oxygenated fuel like nitrous which allows the argument to go on and on. All of the above assume you can tune your engine to take advantage of the different fuels - no trivial task. |
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