Ray SA

Mycroft ,

If cv does = ron then why dont we just add benzene . I am aware you are helping me on another thread so if you prefer I will contain my comments there .

Perhaps there is a need for a fuel only BBS !
Thanks
Ray

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One day at a time

nitro

To RAY SA
Nitrous Formula Octane Boosters are now avaiable in South Africa !!
Try some and see how impressive it is !!

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When only the BEST will do!!

Nick Harris

Just registered, have read this thread front to back twice, (half a jar of coffee) I work in F1, engines mostly, and this thread is simply astonishing, I can only admire the dedication shown to this 'crusade' for the truth, I have E-mailed Mycroft (last night on another matter) I told him then and I'll say this openly this is the best thread ever, does you all credit, reasoned and reasonable.

A bit effusive maybe, but this sort of thing is so rare.

Nick.

InsBro

Just read this post with great interest (nearly 2 hours)

A couple of questions

I wonder if SUL is therefore better for power and optimax is better at preventing det?

Where does Wynns octane booster fit in to this?

Thanks

Jeremy

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It may harm your defence when questioned if you do not mention a modification which you may later rely on while overtaking!

Mycroft

#I wonder if SUL is therefore better for power and optimax is better at preventing det?#

Sort of, but care needs to be taken finding the right SUL, also to some extent the biggest thing going for Opt seems to be its 'cleaning' function, perhaps the clue is within that, to surmise, perhaps we need to buy a tank of Opt. occasionally to keep the car clean and SUL(High CV) for the remainder.

#Where does Wynns octane booster fit in to this?#

You must decide for yourself, like all these things it is hard to give an answer that is definitive as there are so many different experiences, the real point to my mind is that buying any fuel and adding an OB may not be as beneficial (interpret that as you wish) as you are led to believe and that perhaps we should look for better more real power options.

Nick Harris phoned me today (from Germany) and pointed out something. I'll paraphrase "If any OBs' were that good then the Revenue men would slap a duty on them, they produce only a marginal improvement so as to stay out of the hands of the C&E'

Bloody good point.

alex h

Which means the goverment think Toluene is great as they try to slap duty on it if you want it for fuel! But like, who admits its for fuel??

By the way if you want some decent fuel you could try here

http://www.76lubricants.co.uk/

There is some 106octane unleaded race fuel here...bl00dy expensive though!

Hugh Keir

Found this spec sheet from Texas instruments showing the application of their TMS320 DSP.

http://www-s.ti.com/sc/psheets/spra039/spra039.pdf

The article agrees with my earlier comments that I believe engine knock is a function of cylinder bore diameter and not at a fixed frequency as Mycroft would have us believe.

Page 7 has the following note " The impulse caused by the shock wave excites a resonance in the cylinder at a characteristic frequency that is dependant primarily on the cylinder bore diameter and combustion chamber temperature "

Page 8 also talks about different tuned frequency sensors can be required for each engine type and the normal range being in the 5 to 7 kHz range.

Andre,

In cylinder pressure sensing

Page 7 also mentions that Toyota is the only manufacturer to install combustion chamber pressure sensors into production engines, might be worth looking into further, especially from the control point of view.


All in all an interesting document.

somberg

Hugh

I know that paper, haven't been able to read it completely yet. As it happens, we (my company that is) have some nice 320C25 based hardware..

As for in-cylinder pressure measurement: no real need for it since it has been proven, that it can be done with ion sensing. The thermal ionisation current is directly related to the pressure curve. The PPP has to be around 14 degrees ATDC to get maximum efficiency; building a closed loop control mechanism using this is a very interesting option.

Found another company in Sweden (http://www.mecel.com/ : subsidiary of Delco Electronics) who might have some nice hardware. Am about to find that out.

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Bananaman..

Mycroft

Interesting paper, in appendix C on p47 it shows the actual frequencies used for the software the base frequency is 6140hz which to me ties in nicely with my statement;

#It is simply a pressure spike at around 6400hz#

They must have some trimming available so as to tune them better to the base frequency of the Detonation. so arange of 5-7khz is reasonable and that paper confirms that they do indeed use harmonics to gain further confirmation of the Det. even more pleasing is the use of weighting to these signals giving a fuller picture.

I also stated that there is some variation in th the base frequency due to bore size and material they allow them selves ±400hz, the 5khz is I believe for 2-strokes and really are of no concern to us here.

I noticed that they use very sophicated sampling to obtain 4000 rpm as a max rpm, most cars use a more robust system limiting the the true readings to just over 2000rpm and using the harmonics to extrapolate further retardation again confirming my earlier statements.

Overall a very 'agreeable' paper.

dan0h

Mycroft et al

Very very impressive thread and findings guys!

I actually earn part of my crust modifying a product of Mecel - the SAAB Trionic engine management system which uses the plug gap Ion-flow to detect knock rather than a conventional sensor. Apparantly.

I just know how to make the software deliver more fuel, advance and boost!

What does that tell you guys, I work in SAAB tuning, and am now waiting for my Skyline to arrive from Japan! Front-Wheel-Drive are swear words to me. I say that ... Front-Wheel power is ok, but only when its guided by a HICAS control unit hehe

Anyway, very impressive stuff, I'm trying my hardest to read it all and keep up with the findings!

Dan

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planet dan0h

Dynapack Operator and Engine mapper @ Abbey's ... Responsible for Tim's BNR34 Nur, tokyodrew's BNR34, Rocket Ronnie's 3xTOTB Winning BCNR33, Harry's BCNR33, Big Marks BCNR33, Jae's BCNR33, Zenon's (Nemesis) BCNR33, Ron Kidell's (RK Tuning) BNR32, m6beg's BNR32 & m6beg's missus's GDB Subaru!, Daz's BNR32, Knight's BNR32, GBH Motorsport JZA80 ... And quite a lot of other cars people don't know about...

slippyr4

HICAS is the steering.... ATESSA ETS-PRO is the traction system.

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Signature is currently on holiday, returning soon.

dan0h

Oh **** I knew that really wasnt thinking ... very sad considering just how much anorak material I'd read about HICAS and ATESSA ...

*hits himself*

Cheers slippyr4

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planet dan0h

Dynapack Operator and Engine mapper @ Abbey's ... Responsible for Tim's BNR34 Nur, tokyodrew's BNR34, Rocket Ronnie's 3xTOTB Winning BCNR33, Harry's BCNR33, Big Marks BCNR33, Jae's BCNR33, Zenon's (Nemesis) BCNR33, Ron Kidell's (RK Tuning) BNR32, m6beg's BNR32 & m6beg's missus's GDB Subaru!, Daz's BNR32, Knight's BNR32, GBH Motorsport JZA80 ... And quite a lot of other cars people don't know about...

Steve W

Mycroft - GTR BBS



What is the alcohol for ? ?

AND, is it OK without the alcohol ? ?

Do you need to 'pre-mix' the Toluene and fill the tank from Jerry's,
OR, is adding it prior to a 'fill-up' good enough ? ?
[ of course the only problem with the 2nd method is carrying
~5Litres of Toluene around with you ! ? ]

Steve W.

ps. Sorry if the above sounds a bit 'DERRR' , but I've only ever used
'normal' Octane boosters before and they're easier to use
(because of they're 'weaker' nature ?! Want to be a bit more
cautious when dealing with LITRES of solvents !! )

pps. SORRY, I'm a party-crasher from mkIVSupra.net. Please
feel free to tell me to *&%*£$ if you want.....

Mycroft

Welcome Steve,

Toluene is prone to 'flaring' and the alcohol mitigates this.

witout some 'buffer' to ensure smooth burning the straight toly can make a smooth motor a little 'rough', it is just the clouding in the chamber as it ignites.

Mix 5ltrs in a can put it in drive to the nearest station and continue as normal.

Your caution is justified.

I'll leave the colourful language to the 'gentlemen' over there, they are so much more adept at it.